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the first seeks to strike down the federal government's defense of marriage act, known as doma. the second involves a challenge to california's proposition 8, a voter-approved ballot initiative that outlawed same-sex marriage. a federal appeals court struck down the law earlier this year. the court's decision to weigh in on marriage equality came as same-sex couples began marrying in washington state yesterday. on election day voters there and in maryland and in maine made history when they became the first states to approve same-sex marriage at the ballot box. joining us now to discuss is steve, chair of the gay and lesbian victory fund. great to have you. >> nice to be here, alex. s. >> so a lot of tea leaf read and arm chair prognostication around this. i am by no means a supreme court expert, but when i saw that they were taking up both doma and prop 8, question as to whether they would take up inform i them at all, it seemed to me a signal that the court was ready to make a big decision, and i just cannot imagine, especially when you have conservatives like john roberts, wh
the first seeks to strike down the federal government's defense of marriage act, known as doma. the second involves a challenge to california's proposition 8, a voter-approved ballot initiative that outlawed same-sex marriage. a federal appeals court struck down the law earlier this year. the court's decision to weigh in on marriage equality came as same-sex couples began marrying in washington state yesterday. on election day voters there and in maryland and in maine made history when they...
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even the justice department won't defend doma. so they can wrap it just on invalidating doma without answering the question of the validity of same-sex marriage. that's an easy way to do it. that's what supreme court decisions often will resolve cases by. look at the procedural issue. this is an answer the american people want. the supreme court recognizes that. they will make a ruling on it. this court will decide this. >> hang on, guys. a wisconsin dad is on the hook for $90,000 in back child support. he had nine kids with six different women. what the judge said he can't do anymore until he pays up. legal guys will weigh in on that as well. >>> and the looming fiscal cliff. the president says raising money on the wealthiest americans could raise a trillion dollars. from the best players in history to the number 1 club in the world. the potential of manchester united unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. help
even the justice department won't defend doma. so they can wrap it just on invalidating doma without answering the question of the validity of same-sex marriage. that's an easy way to do it. that's what supreme court decisions often will resolve cases by. look at the procedural issue. this is an answer the american people want. the supreme court recognizes that. they will make a ruling on it. this court will decide this. >> hang on, guys. a wisconsin dad is on the hook for $90,000 in back...
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>> the doma case is a much more easy case. all it does is to return congress to its original position of following whatever states say the definition of marriage are. so it was crafted because it's a movement. they tend to be pro-state's rights and the liberals are pro-gay so arguing towards the middle, these are justice kennedy's favorite things. that's clearly a fifth vote for this case. we assume. so i think everyone imagined everyone since appellate court struck it down, that it leads to the supreme court to review the case. everyone thought they would take the case. i think they are going to do the right thing and strike it down. the other case is much more complicated. the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says the
>> the doma case is a much more easy case. all it does is to return congress to its original position of following whatever states say the definition of marriage are. so it was crafted because it's a movement. they tend to be pro-state's rights and the liberals are pro-gay so arguing towards the middle, these are justice kennedy's favorite things. that's clearly a fifth vote for this case. we assume. so i think everyone imagined everyone since appellate court struck it down, that it leads...
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let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're going to pre-empt you before you try. i think social cons are in a much better position when they say, look, let's make it so the government can't compel us to do things privately we don't want to do. i think you'll see much more emphasis placed on that. the question will be more than what will the supreme court try to do because they don't want to be out in front of public opinion too much. it's going to be fascinating. >> and they've rarely been accused of doing that either. david, let's move on to prop 8 in california. i
let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're...
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. >> particularly over the doma case. gay marriage advocates who want the defense of marriage act struck down say doma creates a gay-only exception to federal recognition of state licensed marriages. and we believe that the federal government should stop discriminating against same sex couples legally married by their states. but defender of traditional marriage between one man and one woman say, quote: since president bill clinton signed doma into law, 30 states have followed suit by incorporating the definition of marriage into their constitutions. voters in these states will not accept an activist court redefining our most fundamental social institution. arguments on both cases are likely to be in march and rules likely in june. shep? >> shepard: we got another announcement from the supreme court today. it's going to take up another case that really could effect what we all pay for prescription drugs. >> right. this is about the battle between more expensive brand name drugs and cheaper generic drugs. some of the brand
. >> particularly over the doma case. gay marriage advocates who want the defense of marriage act struck down say doma creates a gay-only exception to federal recognition of state licensed marriages. and we believe that the federal government should stop discriminating against same sex couples legally married by their states. but defender of traditional marriage between one man and one woman say, quote: since president bill clinton signed doma into law, 30 states have followed suit by...
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the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have same-sex marriage to require them to have same-sex marriage. i don't think that's going to happen. i think there's many weigh stations between 0 and 50. for example, the court could look at this and say there are a bunch of states, eight states that say we're going to give you the rights and benefits of marriage but we're going to withhold the word marriage. the court can look and say you're worried about is brand. all you're saying is if you let gays into marriage that's going to diminish the brand. we're going to strike that down. we're going to add those s
the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have...
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so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government is meddling with the state definitions of marriage. with respect to the prop 8 case, i think again kennedy, because of these two cases i mentioned, is likely to be sympathetic but may be incremental. he may say something along the lines of one state or eight states have to flip. i don't think he'll flip all 41. >> we always appreciate your valuable insight. we hope you'll stick around for the next few months and continue to provide that as we wade through what is undoubtedly going to be a fairly complex case, as well. good saturday to you, sir. thank you for your time. >>
so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government...
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the high court agreed to hear two important cases, prop 8 out of california and doma out of new york. a federal court recently overturned prop 8 after the measure passed by voters. the court will decide if doma violates the fifth amendment of equal protection under the law that applies to same-section couples legally married in other states. >>> today is a very happy day for same-section couples in washington state. it is the first day they can marry under the new law, legalizing gay marriage. couples began lining up for licenses early thursday morning. some courthouses opened up at midnight for the ceremonies to take place. several local judges also donated their time to marry the couples. ceremonies are expected all day today. >>> last week, washington state became the latest state to legalize marijuana and now businesses there are jumping on the opportunity to create more revenue for themselves and the state. fox has the details. >> reporter: the sign is an invitation to come inside frankie's sports bar and light up a joint. in between pool shots, that's just what herald caldwell d
the high court agreed to hear two important cases, prop 8 out of california and doma out of new york. a federal court recently overturned prop 8 after the measure passed by voters. the court will decide if doma violates the fifth amendment of equal protection under the law that applies to same-section couples legally married in other states. >>> today is a very happy day for same-section couples in washington state. it is the first day they can marry under the new law, legalizing gay...
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the doma case has a very straight forward question. is it constitutional for a federal law to say that the government will not recognize marriages even when they're legal in the states, so that if married couples get married in the nine states where it's now legal, the federal government doesn't recognize those marriages. there's a question about whether that's unconstitutional discrimination, but if the supreme court does strike down doma, it doesn't say anything about whether the states must permit same-sex marriage, it only says if they do, the federal government must recognize them. so it's the proposition 8 case from california that potentially raises the bigger question. now, as it comes to the supreme court, it comes in a very narrow way. the court of appeals, which agreed with the trial court, that proposition 8 striking down gay marriage in california was unconstitutional, it ruled in a very narrow way. it said california was wrong to grant the right and then take it away. you can't do that, apeeldz court said. if the supreme
the doma case has a very straight forward question. is it constitutional for a federal law to say that the government will not recognize marriages even when they're legal in the states, so that if married couples get married in the nine states where it's now legal, the federal government doesn't recognize those marriages. there's a question about whether that's unconstitutional discrimination, but if the supreme court does strike down doma, it doesn't say anything about whether the states must...
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ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot of benefits that come from the federal tax code that people who get married need to enjoy if you're going to have a fair and equitable situation in society. so i think they made a big step forward here. and, you know, the court is a hard place to read. unfortunately, it's not like the election. well don't have nate silver to read every morning to tell us how it's going to turn out. but we'll all be watching closely. >> chris, there is a third issue that the justices haven't taken up yet, and that's an arizona law that bars some same-sex spouses from access to state benefits. where do we go on that? what
ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot...
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there's a variety of different ways they could decide on doma. you know, they don't have to decide on equal protection grounds but the narrow question of benefits or certain benefits or certain tax breaks that married people who happen to be same sex should get or shouldn't get. so, there's a whole range of ways they could consider this. it doesn't mean they're just going to go in and determine that a law against same-sex marriage is illegal discrimination. there are a lot of other things they can do with it. >> benefits are one thing. recognition and allowance is another thing. here's the other thing. it is real hard to get breaking material and information out of the supreme court before they're ready to give it but on occasion good connections yield something and yet a lock-up in terms of what they might do with prop 8 and doma. >> yeah. that's true. but you have to remember, on these big, sweeping social issues that the court has decided throughout history, desegregation of public schools comes to mind, brown versus the board of education, th
there's a variety of different ways they could decide on doma. you know, they don't have to decide on equal protection grounds but the narrow question of benefits or certain benefits or certain tax breaks that married people who happen to be same sex should get or shouldn't get. so, there's a whole range of ways they could consider this. it doesn't mean they're just going to go in and determine that a law against same-sex marriage is illegal discrimination. there are a lot of other things they...
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is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's a heavy judicial pile of precedent here from the lower courts. the only question remains is one of standing. but i think that it really is losing steam. the questions going to be holings worth and whether they leave this question to states like california. and that could be a really painful decision if it goes the wrong way. saying it violated the rights of
is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's a heavy judicial pile of precedent here from the lower courts. the only question remains is one of standing. but i think that it really is losing steam. the questions going to be holings worth and whether they leave this question to states like california. and that could be a really painful decision if it goes the wrong way....
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cheryl harris says "i think doma women get shut down quickly on solid legal grounds. prop 8 harder but kennedy will clear it up." >>> next the tug-of-war over the fiscal cliff. how much are democrats willing to give our entitlement cuts? we'll ask congressman elijah cummings that question. >>> the fight on capitol hill convinces a big powerball winner to claim his fortune now. you're watching "weekends with alex witt." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. i tell them dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can grow and multiply. polident is specifically designed to clean dentures daily. its unique micro-clean formula kills 99.9% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains, cleaning in a better way than brushing with toothpaste. that's why i recommend using polident. [ male announ
cheryl harris says "i think doma women get shut down quickly on solid legal grounds. prop 8 harder but kennedy will clear it up." >>> next the tug-of-war over the fiscal cliff. how much are democrats willing to give our entitlement cuts? we'll ask congressman elijah cummings that question. >>> the fight on capitol hill convinces a big powerball winner to claim his fortune now. you're watching "weekends with alex witt." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. in...
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is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts say i saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's
is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts say i saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's
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supreme court decided to hear cases regarding federal laws, one regarding the defense of marriage act, or doma, involving couples legally married in their own state. the other is a challenge to california's prop 8, which took away the rates of same-sex marriage that had been previously approved by state courts. >>> the top story this hour, a man considered the leader of a terrorist network, now in custody in egypt. this is why we're paying attention to this man. u.s. officials believe his group had something to do with the attack in libya that killed the american ambassador and three other u.s. citizens. our national correspondent, susan candiotti is live for us. you have been working your sources. what do we know about this terror suspect and the group he leads? >> well, let's talk about him. the investigators have had this man on the radar for some time. and now he is being called a possible suspect in the benghazi attacks. muhammad ahmad was arrested, in custody while the investigation goes on. u.s. authorities believe he been involved in the september terror hit that killed ambassador chri
supreme court decided to hear cases regarding federal laws, one regarding the defense of marriage act, or doma, involving couples legally married in their own state. the other is a challenge to california's prop 8, which took away the rates of same-sex marriage that had been previously approved by state courts. >>> the top story this hour, a man considered the leader of a terrorist network, now in custody in egypt. this is why we're paying attention to this man. u.s. officials believe...
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the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that whole scenario. also remember, a lot of businesses who whether it be say wedding photographers, wedding deejays, bank gbank get hauls wo may not be catering to same-sex marriages, they have been attacked very often by lawsuits because they may not necessarily be catering to same-sex marriages. saw this over in new mexico with elaine photography when a photographer said i don't care to photograph same-sex marriage ended up being sued. this lawsuit is still going on right now. >> jimmy williams, welcome back. just explain to me. i'm sure there's a l
the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that...
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so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of an equal protection question. the request he is will the court be ahead of where the public is or behind the public. this is a question that eventually sooner or later, probably sooner, the public will come around to recognize and already is showing by the polls that marriage equality should be considered a fundamental constitutional right. >> professor peterson, to julian's point, despite its rulings on the president's health care law, on immigration, this court maintains a conservative tilt. is this necessarily good news for supporters of same-sex ma
so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of...
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. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have thousands of federal benefits. the case before the supreme court involves a woman who had to pay $363,000 in estate taxes she wouldn't have had to pay just because the person she was married to was the same gender as herself. it's fairness but limbed to that one state. >> patricia, always good to see you. thanks for weighing in. >> thank you. >> the deadline for the fiscal cliff is just over three weeks away. lawmakers are still mired in part in gridlock, each side saying the other is to blame. what do their constituents think? cnbc says 21% would blame the president, 23% blame republicans, 52 blame ea
. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have...
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there is a possibility justices will hear cases that challenge the federal defense of merge act or doma as it's known or california's proposition 8 which defines marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. >>> authorities have ordered folks in parts of louisiana to get out of town as they work to secure more than 6 million pounds of gun powder. gun powder. improperly stored m-6 powder was found at camp minden on property leased by expo system. workers are busy moving the powder into authorized facilities on the site. they have safely stored more than 1 million pounds. that is enough to fill 27 18-wheelers. >> wow. nine bodies have been recovered from three crushed, burned out cars in a highway tunnel 50 miles west of tokyo. officials still don't know what caused a 200 foot section of eight inch thick concrete to cave in over the weekend. take a look at these incredible pictures. and they're not saying whether there might be more victims in the rubble. >>> malala yousafzai, that pakistani girl who was shot in the head by the taliban is saying thank you to all of her new friends all o
there is a possibility justices will hear cases that challenge the federal defense of merge act or doma as it's known or california's proposition 8 which defines marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. >>> authorities have ordered folks in parts of louisiana to get out of town as they work to secure more than 6 million pounds of gun powder. gun powder. improperly stored m-6 powder was found at camp minden on property leased by expo system. workers are busy moving the powder...